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Latest Articles on Osgoode-NYU JD-LLB Program |
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Law School Bound
JOINT LL.B./J.D. PROGRAMS - OSGOODE JUMPS IN!
Osgoode Hall Announces LL.B./J.D. Program With NYU Law School
By John Richardson
January 26, 2005
Introduction - Some Definitions
In order to understand the following article, you will need to know the following definitions.
LL.B. - A Bachelor of Laws - the three year law degree offered by Canada's common law schools. Common law applies in all Canadian
provinces except Quebec. In Quebec, McGill is the only school that offers an LL.B.
JD - Juris Doctor - the three year law degree offered by U.S. law schools.
ABA - The American Bar Association
"ABA Approved JD" - A JD approved by the American Bar Association. Those who have earned an "ABA approved JD" can take the bar exam in any U.S. state. Those without an "ABA Approved JD" can take the bar exam in only a small number of states.
What Is The New Osgoode Hall LL.B./JD Program?
On January 25, 2005 Osgoode Hall Law School of York University, following the lead of the University of Windsor and the University Of Ottawa announced its new LL.B./JD program. The program provides an opportunity for students to earn both a Canadian LL.B. and a U.S. (ABA - American Bar Association approved) JD degree in four years. An "LL.B." is a three year Canadian law degree. A "JD" is a three year U.S. law degree. A "JD" that is `ABA" approved allows U.S. law graduates to take the bar exam in any U.S. state. The program has been structured so that students will do two back-to-back years at Osgoode and two back-to-back years at New York University Law School (NYU). Students will receive both the LL.B. and JD degrees at the end of the fourth year. Osgoode Dean Patrick Monahan says that the program is contemplated to accommodate ten to twenty students per year.
The program is open to both U.S. and Canadian students. The availability of joint LL.B./J.D. programs at Windsor, Ottawa and now Osgoode should stimulate U.S. interest in pursuing Canadian legal studies.
(According to Dean Monahan, Osgoode is working on an additional program with NYU. This will be a joint LL.B./LL.M. program that can be completed in 3.5 rather than the usual 4 years.)
What Courses Will Students Take?
Students will continue to take the normal first year at Osgoode Hall. This includes most of the courses that are required in law school. In second year students are free to take electives. In the two years at NYU, students will be free to take a large number of electives. Students will, however, be required to take some specific courses required by the ABA (including U.S. constitutional law and Civil Procedure).
Tuition:
Two years of tuition fees will be paid to Osgoode (currently about $13,000 Canadian per year) and two years to NYU (currently about $35,000 U.S. per year). According to Dean Monahan, financial aid for the fees at NYU may be available to students in two ways:
First, through the financial aid program at NYU; and
Second, through Wall Street firms who will be encouraged to subsidize the difference between Osgoode's tuition fees and the fees charged by NYU.
Internship Opportunities:
Osgoode will be working with the Canadian Consulate in New York to develop internship opportunities for Osgoode students in New York.
How To Apply:
What are the logistics of applying to the program? Students can apply as part of their general application to Osgoode Hall Law School. In this case applicants must be accepted to both Osgoode's LL.B. program and the LL.B./J.D. program. Once in the law school, students can apply to the LL.B./J.D. program at the end of their first year. Those who are first year students at Osgoode in the fall of 2005 will be eligible to apply to the program in the spring of 2006 - at the end of their first year.
The Trend Toward Joint LL.B./J.D. Programs
Long time readers of this newsletter will know how positive I have been toward programs of this type. The fact that Osgoode is following Windsor and Ottawa into this market means that three of the six Canadian law schools now have agreements with U.S. law schools allowing students to graduate with both Canadian and U.S. law degrees. In addition, McGill awards students both civil and common law degrees in three years. Joint law degree programs are getting more and more popular. I think it is likely that the remaining three Ontario law schools (U of T, Queen's and Western) and other Canadian schools will seek to establish similar programs.
It is interesting to note that approximately four years ago the University of Toronto changed the designation of its law degree from an LL.B. to a JD. Pre-law students should note that the U of T JD is not an ABA approved JD like the JD available from Windsor, Ottawa and Osgoode.
The Value Of Joint LL.B./J.D. Programs
I see three great benefits.
First, Dean Monahan suggests that the demand for holders of joint LL.B./JD degrees will be high. It strikes me that, from the perspective of a Canadian law firm, by hiring a graduate of the program, a Canadian law firm is essentially "getting something for nothing." The value will be enhanced if the student also gets himself/herself admitted to a U.S. state bar after graduation. (In fairness it should be noted that it is possible for Canadian law graduates without U.S. law degrees to take the bar in some but not all U.S. states.)
Second, graduates of the program will have permanent mobility in the U.S. Only those with ABA approved JD degrees have the right to take the bar exam in any U.S. state Third, graduates of the program will have a far superior legal education. There is no question that there is huge amount of business between the U.S. and Canada.
Tracy Tyler of the Toronto Star commenting on the new program quoted Pamela Wallin as saying that Canada does more trade with the head office of Home Depot in Georgia, than it does with all of France. She also commented that there were about 300 treaties governing trade between the U.S. and Canada. Graduates of the program will be the best positioned lawyers to participate.
Dean Monahan expects the Osgoode program will appeal to the most outstanding Osgoode applicants - who might have opted to forgo law school in Canada and go to a top tier U.S. law school. The program would give these people the best of both worlds.
How Does The Osgoode LL.B./JD Program Differ From Those Offered By Windsor And Ottawa?
The theory is the same. All three schools give students the opportunity to achieve both U.S. and Canadian law degrees in three years. The programs at Osgoode and Ottawa take four years (two years at each school). The program at the University Of Windsor has the advantage of taking only three years.) The University Of Windsor and the University Of Detroit are about 20 minutes apart.) Students in the University Of Ottawa's LL.B./JD program pay University of Ottawa tuition fees in each of their four years.
Summary Of Joint LL.B/JD Programs
University Of Windsor - Partnered with The University Of Detroit - 3 year program
University Of Ottawa - Partnered with both Michigan State University and with American University in Washington, DC - 4 year program
Osgoode Hall - Partnered with NYU (New York University Law School) - 4 year program
Washington Square News
NYU Law looks north for ally
By Kate VanEmrik
Contributing Writer
February 3, 2005
To all those potential law students who swore they'd move to Canada if President Bush was re-elected, but found that the move wasn't feasible as students still in college and of limited means: Look no further.
NYU's Law School will create a joint-degree with York University's Osgoode Hall Law School in Toronto, Canada, allowing law students to study for two years at each school and earn both Canadian and American law degrees.
The ceremony, where the announcement was made on Jan. 25, was held at Osgoode, with both deans present.
Architects of the program said it will provide students on both sides of the border with a more global legal perspective.
In four years, rather than the normal three, students will become experts in the Canadian and American legal systems, which is a more marketable skill for international law students or those who want to practice abroad, representatives from the schools said.
"You always gain from being at a new school and to be exposed to new ways of thinking and with the trend in the internationalization of law this program could be better for a career," said Noah Waisberg of Toronto, Canada, a second year law student at NYU.
While details of the program are still being finalized, 10 to 20 students will be admitted into the program annually to keep it competitive and focused, Osgoode Dean Patrick Monahan said.
"We are trying to attract the high-end of the applicant pool," he said.
Applicants will go through a rigorous process in which they must meet admission standards at both schools, Monahan said. The students may then choose to begin either at NYU or Osgoode, paying tuition in the respective country's currency, he said.
Osgoode officials approached NYU in an attempt to stem the overwhelming number of Canadian students who flock to U.S. law schools every year, in search of the more marketable American degree. Around 26,000 Canadian students study at American universities, while only 4,000 American students study in Canada, The Toronto Star reported.
"Outstanding, qualified Canadians were going directly to the United States," Monahan said. "This program is an opportunity to attract Canadians and offer them a reason to stay in Canada."
NYU was the first choice among many American universities Osgoode was considering, Monahan said.
As for the motivation behind NYU's acceptance of the partnership, NYU law school Dean Richard Revesz said, "Our partnership with Osgoode Hall Law School adds another dimension to the NYU School of Law's historic commitment to global legal education."
The Toronto Star
York opens US door; Osgoode offers joint law degree Students can get JD from NYU
By Tracey Tyler
January 26, 2005
At one time, students like Adil Goraya thought they could go anywhere with their law degree, the cherished LL.B.
Well, maybe not anymore. Like the Canadian Loonie, it seems the LL.B.'s value is diminished on the American market.
Enter the J.D., the American legal world's currency of choice.
Four years ago, the University of Toronto's faculty of law created a stir in the Canadian legal community by changing the name of its degree, scrapping the LL.B., an abbreviation of the Latin for Bachelor of Laws, the standard used throughout the Commonwealth, in favour of the more U.S.-friendly J.D.
That stands for Juris Doctor, derived from the German phrase Juris Utriusque Doctor.
Fans of the J.D. say it better recognizes that a law degree is the result of years of hard post-graduate slogging, something like a Doctor of Philosophy.
Holding true to Canadian content, Osgoode refused to budge for four years after its downtown rival's daring move in 2001. Not to be outdone, however, it announced yesterday that it was offering students the best of both worlds - a chance to graduate with an LL.B. and a J.D.
"I'd love to go down to the States," Goraya, 35, a third-year student at Osgoode Hall Law School said yesterday.
Osgoode Dean Patrick Monahan and Dean Richard Revesz of New York University School of Law signed a memorandum of understanding, creating a joint-degree program, allowing students to spend two years at Osgoode and two years in New York, graduating with an LL.B. from Osgoode and a J.D. from NYU.
The J.D. does "open a lot of doors on the job market," Revesz acknowledged. But, more significantly, yesterday's deal recognizes that the practise of law involves dealing with legal systems outside one's own country, he said.
Monahan assembled an all-star cast for the announcement. Entering to the strains of George Gershwin's "Rhapsody in Blue" were Paul Cellucci, the U.S. Ambassador to Canada, and Canada's Consul General in New York, Pamela Wallin.
Wallin reminded the crowd that Canada does more trade annually with the Home Depot's head office in Georgia than with all of France. There are also about 300 international treaties governing dealings between Canada and the U.S., she said.
In an interview, Cellucci said he thinks the program may encourage more students to head north to learn about our legal system and correct a trade imbalance between Canadian and American law students. There are about 26,000 Canadian students in the U.S., versus 4,000 Americans here.
 | Front row seated, left to right:York University President Lorna Marsden, NYU School of Law Dean Richard Revesz, Osgoode Dean Patrick Monahan. Standing, left to right, The Honourable Paul Cellucci, U.S. Ambassador to Canada, the Honourable Pamela Wallin, Canada’s Consul General in New York,
Lawson Hunter, Q.C., Executive Vice-President at BCE Inc. |
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NYU School of Law Dean Richard Revesz (left) and Osgoode Dean Patrick Monahan exchange caps and sweatshirts. |
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NYU School of Law Dean Richard Revesz (left) and Osgoode Dean Patrick Monahan sign a Memorandum of Understanding. |
Photography by Cliff Spicer
The Globe and Mail
Toronto, N.Y. law schools team up
By Beppi Crosariol
January 25, 2005
York University's Osgoode Hall Law School is teaming with New York University School of Law to offer a joint degree program allowing graduates to practice in both countries.
The alliance will allow students to study two years in Toronto and two in New York.
The program, to be announced this afternoon and launched in 2006, aims to satisfy the growing need for lawyers licensed to work on both sides of the border.
The University of Windsor already offers a joint degree with the Detroit Mercy College of Law. And University of Ottawa's Faculty of Law has similar arrangements with Michigan State University and American University's Washington College of Law.
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